How much is that Locdog in the window?
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Good day. We here at HG Laboratories do more than invent New and Exciting Products and experiment with Mental Health. We also find ways to just plain Improve The Quality Of Your Life. In this, the first of our Life Improvement Series, we're going to take a look at that age-old way most folks pass their time: Arguing.

Now, as a wise man one put it, Arguing is more than the automatic gain saying of the opposite whatever the other person says. It's a mental and verbal game of chess: you present a logical and thought-out point, your opponent counters with his/her well-researched rebuttal, and so forth until finally one person (hopefully the one that's right) proves his point to the other. Well, at least that's the way it would be in a Perfect World. More often than not, the Argument degenerates into a name-calling contest, or worse, an ECW Title Bout. Well, no more, we say!

Below, you will see an Argument that we recently studied here in the HG Labs. We present it to you here in it's entirety, unedited and complete. Now, several times during the log, we will interrupt the goings-on to comment on what's being said, done, or implied. What's being done wrong, what's being done correctly, who's presenting their points properly, and all that. Our commentary will be enclosed inside of a colorful box, so that you may easily pick out our helpful suggestions from the ongoing discussion. Finally, when all is said and done, we will have a small overview of the lessons we've learned . Our goal is to hopefully provide Good and Bad Examples of how to participate in an Argument.

With the explanations out of the way, let us begin.

Session Start: Sun Aug 08 06:16:33 1999
Session Ident: Locdog07 (D.Billany@
Locdog07> <Erhardt> The HomeGamers just love shovelling shit to annoy people
Ironf> Can I help you?

Here we have the 2 participants in our argument: Locdog07 (hereafter called Locdog) and Ironf. The topic of discussion, at least as it starts out, is deciding the authenticity of Locdog's claims that one Erhardt, co-author of the Satellite News, made a disparaging remark about HG Industries. Logdog has already committed grave error Numero Uno: He has betrayed a confidence by repeating the contents of a private conversation to others.

Locdog07> Hi
Ironf> yes, that's why he was so receptive to our idea for the OED announcment.
Locdog07> Uh, excuse me, accepting an idea to be good doesn't mean he likes you.
Locdog07> And yes, he did indeed say about your "Shit shovelling" to me.
Ironf> and neither does you typing up a single sentence and putting his name at the beginning
Ironf> suuure he did.
Locdog07> Ask him.
Locdog07> It's the truth, I swear to whatever God you believe in.
Locdog07> I would never twist or make up things he says.
Locdog07> Erhardt is a good man

Mistake #2 has just been made by Locdog: He repeats his cries of innocence over and over. As the Bard once put it "Methinks thou dost protest too much." Also, note the line that ends ".....doesn't mean he likes you.". This is another sign of a person not skilled in arguing: attempting to debate points that have not been made by the other party.

Ironf> And we should care what he thinks for what reason?
Locdog07> Because you seem to care what he thinks about your OED announcement.
Locdog07> And you clearly do care, otherwise you wouldn't deny it.
Ironf> No, it's an means to an ends. Getting more pub out of it means more people see it.
Locdog07> And you deserve
Ironf> deserve what?
Locdog07> How is what you do any different that what another MSTie does?

That grinding noise you hear is Locdog switching discussion gears once again. Mr. Erhardt has been temporarily forgotten by our subjects, as Locdog now changes over to a "Why do you deserve publicity?" argument. Rule 1: Do not move on to a new argument/discussion until you've finished the old one. The "OED Announcement", by the by, is an effort by the HG to get "riff" and possibly "MST" into the Oxford Dictionary.

Locdog07> Deserve publicity.
Locdog07> They could hammer "MSTie says 'lalala!'" on the front page, but it doesn't deserve it.
Ironf> I haven't seen any others try to get a word from the show into the american lexicon, have you?
Locdog07> Well, yes, actually.
Locdog07> j/k

We've run the line "MSTie says lalala!" through our Universal Translators here at HG labs, and for the life of us we cannot figure out just what the hell it means. The closest we came was a guess that it means this: if someone on MST3K said "lalala", would it mean that it should be put in the dictionary? We decided to lay off the booze for the rest of the experiment. Also note the "j/k" line, which is shorthand for "joking". We gave up looking for the "joke" this line refers to after several hours, figuring it got lost in the transmission.

Locdog07> Anyway, what would be the point?
Locdog07> Nobody's gonna look at it and care. Except a MSTie.
Locdog07> The real deservers are the people who get mentioned on that site without asking.
Ironf> Well duh, you think so? That's who we need to look at it to send in the citations.
Locdog07> No, I mean when it's in the American lexicon.
Locdog07> If it got in there, nobody would care except a MSTie.,
Locdog07> Everyone else would think it was a little freakish.

If we're reading that "The real deservers.." line properly, we're guessing that Locdog is making the argument that no one who seeks Fame deserves it. Huh. OK. Guess that means that all the Hollywood Casting Offices should be closed, because anyone looking to be a Star obviously doesn't deserve it. By the by, lots of words have been added to the American Lexicon from Entertainment, and no one we've known has complained. Jeep and Goon came from Popeye, Nerd was popularized by Happy Days, and Professional Sports have contributed too many words to list here. And, a quick bit of trivia: Locdog's site, that seems to contain, among other things, fan fiction about himself (as of this writing), is mentioned at SatNews. Is Locdog afraid of a little competition, or just plain Greedy? You decide.

Ironf> Yes not at all like bragging that they stay up till 4 in the morning to attend a chat with faux-celebrities
Locdog07> It's a lot like that. It's not a sin to brag, you know. It's a thing we humans do.
Locdog07> You can't wipe out all desires to feel good about yourself just cuz it sounds silly.
Ironf> It's called vanity. Sin number 4 or 5 I believe
Locdog07> You know, if you go by books you're not allowed to do anything without it being a sin.
Locdog07> I'm talking about in the whole big scheme of things, bragging isn't such a bad thing.

 Locdog makes an odd argument, here. He first makes the statement that people who seek Fame don't deserve it, then makes the point here that bragging is a good thing. Isn't bragging just seeking Fame? Or, is he saying that it's Ok to brag about other things, but not this? (whatever "this" is, in his mind). We had begun to suspect that the problem wasn't the transmission of the argument to the labs.

Ironf> I didn't put that forth, but when one wants to call something else freakish, they need to examine themselves beforehand
Locdog07> I'm saying that what *other people* see as freakish isn't freakish to a MSTie.
Ironf> In the whole big scheme of things, it's only a tv show. Get over it.
Locdog07> You're the one trying to get a word into the American lexicus.
Ironf> You're the one that messaged me to cry about it.
Locdog07> Cry about it? I merely msged you with what Erhardt said about you.
Locdog07> You continued.
Ironf> then you continued.
Locdog07> With "Hi"
Ironf> a conversation is two way communication.
Locdog07> And then *you* continued with the childish "Suuuure he did, uh- huh"
Locdog07> I was being sensible and truthful, you turned it into
some sort of childish fight.

And the name-calling escalates. For the record, Ironf does say "suuuure he did" but does not say "uh-huh". Locdog also makes his "...doesn't mean he likes you" point before that line, so he was as responsible for continuing the conversation as Ironf was. This is a good place for Rule 2: Quote Accurately, and never Lie. Of note: Ironf makes 2 excellent points here; Keeping MST3K's cancellation in perspective (It's only a TV show..), and questioning Locdog's motives in reporting Erhardt's supposed statement.

Locdog07> Same as how you guys did with the simple request of thinking about British MSTies when you guys see the season finale.
Ironf> No, I simply don't believe you because you have no credibility in my eyes.
Locdog07> I told you to ask Erhardt.
Locdog07> Have I *ever* lied before?
Locdog07> I may have been mistaken, but never lied to you
Ironf> Lying isn't the only thing credibility is based upon
Locdog07> I may have not known something, or just not been a very good arguer, or just maybe a little stupid, but I don't lie to you.
Locdog07> Well, okay, I understand how you can't really trust me, after all it's not like we got off on the right foot...
Locdog07> Hmm...
Locdog07> Well, I tell you what, forget it, it doesn't matter.
Ironf> The point is, if you weren't bothered by it, you wouldn't keep the conversation going.
Locdog07> Neither would you.
Ironf> then when it gets to a point where you can no longer handle it, you try to wash your hands of it
Locdog07> And there's a problem with not being able to handle something? To have limits?

Locdog commits another couple of mistakes here: One, he temporarily gives up. Then, in a whiplash-inducing moment, switches conversation gears once again. A third mistake, in his last line, is the implication that he's losing the argument due to some personal troubles. Rule 3: Argue fairly. Don't bring personal lives into it, unless that's what the argument is about.

Ironf> I didn't instigate the conversation, so anything I do from that point on is simply reply
Ironf> No the problem is when you try to act better than something, then when confronted turn and try to run away
Locdog07> Oh, wait, how about you trying to act better than me in the News chat?
Locdog07> Just because there were lots of you, and I was one guy, doesn't make you better.
Locdog07> And I wasn't trying to run away. I'm still here.
Locdog07> I'm willing to carry on.
Ironf> I did no such thing. I simply asked why a king/queen when they don't do anything
Locdog07> You also backed up CrowTR's statements about English people.
Ironf> umm citations on that please.
Locdog07> Why do I need citations? It's a fact. You agreed with him.

Oy, where do we start? Locdog once again switches gears (at this rate he's going to go through a transmission every six months) and breaks another cardinal rule. Rule 4: Don't refer to past arguments unless they pertain to a germane point. Ironf plays along, even asking Locdog to cite examples to prove his point. Locdog refuses. Point to Ironf. A good time to refer to Rule 5: Cite Examples to back up your point(s).

Ironf> No, I said in the beginning, he had a valid point, once he got off on his English rant, I only asked about the king/queen
Ironf> It's all about reading comprehension
Locdog07> Define "all"
Locdog07> You can't just say all. That could be anything.
Ironf> Meaning if you took the time to comprehend what was being said at the time, you would have seen I only said he started with a valid argument, then once he ranted, I asked about the king/queen
Locdog07> And a valid point he may have had, but he was on an English rant from the beginning, if you hadn't noticed.
Locdog07> A valid argument? That everyone should drop everything and walk over to where there's a good TV show on?
Ironf> No, it was a rant on people being upset they couldn't get something where they were and that if they wanted it, they should go where it's at, which I still agree with

Here the past argument has not only been mentioned, it's been resurrected. Another Violation of Rule 4. Mr. Erhardt might wish to partake of our Rest and Recreation Area while he waits to be brought up again. Take note of the "reading comprehension" line used by Ironf: It ends up being repeated by Locdog like a mantra. And just what kind of point is Locdog trying to make with his "Define "all"" line? Dammit, someone go outside and check that damn antenna again....

Locdog07> Oh, yes, why do those Third World country children die...they should just move over here and be fine! That's not valid.
Locdog07> And why do you think the people are in the favellas after moving from Third World countries>?
Locdog07> Because even when they move to where the food is, they can't get in!
Locdog07> They have to struggle moreso where the food is
Ironf> Just because a person agrees with part of a rant doesn't automatically mean they agree with it all.
Locdog07> I'm not saying you agreed with it all anymore
Ironf> We weren't talking about a third world country, unless you would describe England as such
Locdog07> Ironf, you said that the argument about people whinging about not having something when they could just move to where the food is was valid, right?
Ironf> I never mentioned food.
Locdog07> The food was a metaphor!
Locdog07> Geez, weren't you listening?
Locdog07> Didn't you do your reading comprehension?>

We warned you about the reading comprehension line. A half-point for Locdog: he realizes he was wrong about Ironf on a point of contention, and admits it. And he sticks to that contention, at least for the next few lines. Locdog's metaphor about food and kids brings up Rule 6: Repeating a point ad nauseum does not make it more correct (You'll see why in the next few stanzas). By the by, in order to avoid accusations that we've "doctored" this log, all typos have been left in place.

Ironf> But, I didn't say that myself, so I don't need you putting words into my mouth
Locdog07> The food was a metaphor for anything someone doesn't have, anywhere
Locdog07> You said the argument was valid
Locdog07> You can't just later find out there was a part you didn't understand and then change your mind
Locdog07> The food part was always there
Locdog07> You agreed with it then
Ironf> that's right, but I didn't state the argument myself, which is what your sentence insinuated
Locdog07> I'm sorry, i didn't mean it to do that
Locdog07> But you still validated the argument.
Locdog07> I understood it, but I didn't state it
Locdog07> So why couldn't you?
Locdog07> Didn't do your reading comprehension

Even thought we'd sworn off the booze temporarily, one of the researchers suggested we make a Drinking Game out of LocDog's repetition of Ironf's "reading comprehension" line. You know the type, where you take a drink every time a certain event occurs? We quickly decided we'd all be dead of alcohol poisoning long before we finished this session. Another half-point to Locdog for once again realizing he misspoke about something, and retracting it with an apology attached. This showcases Rule 7: Taking a phrase or point the other person made and tossing it in their faces repeatedly is Not Arguing.

Ironf> yes, but that's when it's in the context of a relativly well off person that's upset because they can't get a tv show, not when it's people in a third world country
Locdog07> And Britain could be referred to as a Third World country if in a metaphor, it lacks lots of MST. Lots of it. Like Third World countries lack things necessary for life.
Locdog07> No, CrowTR was referring to anybody. He stated exactly "Everyone"
Ironf> No, it can't because a television show isn't necessary for life
Locdog07> It's a *metaphor*!"
Locdog07> It's necessary for *fun*
Ironf> But it's not an appropraite metaphor
Locdog07> Geez. No reading comprehension, or comprehension of any kind, coming from you.
Ironf> the two things aren't equal.
Locdog07> Yes they are.
Locdog07> England has a huge deficiency of MST. Third World Countries have a deficiency of food or health care or whatever.
Ironf> No they aren't. It's totally different. Without food, people die. Without a certain tv show, life goes on.

We here in the HG Labs read and reread this section several times before deciding that, yes, Locdog is claiming that Britain lacking MST is almost exactly like India lacking food or Pakistan lacking hospitals. Perhaps Willie Nelson can get a bunch of singers together and have a MSTie-Aid Concert. Locdog's small tantrum above also gives us the chance to bring up Rule 8: Just because someone disagrees with you, it does not mean they're an idiot. The following sections also show Locdog violating Rule 9: If someone thoroughly and completely disproves your point, give it up.

Locdog07> Okay, let's alter it a littlke
Locdog07> little
Locdog07> Say a person has an illness, not a painful or deadly one, but an illness.
Locdog07> He's poor, but needs the cure, which is expensive.
Locdog07> He can't afford it.
Locdog07> But it's still there.
Locdog07> We didn't know about the cure before.
Locdog07> Just as England didn't know about MST.
Locdog07> But it was still there.
Locdog07> And the guy still can't get the cure.
Locdog07> Just like many of us Brits still can't get to America just for a show.
Locdog07> It's just not in our capabilities
Ironf> Then he bucks up and gets on with life, or finds a way to get it, be it stealing or whatever
Locdog07> There ya go.
Locdog07> But either way, it brings pain or sorrow.
Ironf> other words quite crying about it, or go where it is.
Ironf> Good to see you finally agree.
Locdog07> So, if you were this guy with an illness you'd think those things?
Locdog07> No, wait, I never said I agreed
Locdog07> You're putting words into *my* mouth
Ironf> <Ironf> Then he bucks up and gets on with life, or finds a way to get it, be it stealing or whatever
Ironf> <Locdog07> There ya go.
Ironf> that's an agreement
Locdog07> <Locdog07> But either way, it brings pain or sorrow.
Locdog07> I'm saying it's not a good argument.
Locdog07> It's wrong to think like that
Locdog07> I agree the metaphor works. Not that it's good.

Locdog thusly begins the long, slow walk into Nonsense. Finally latching onto a point for more than a dozen lines, he heroically stands against Logic to press forward the point that Lack Of MST3K is somehow The Fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. Another point goes to Ironf here, for quoting Locdog's sentence that makes the implication that Locdog agreed with his point. Locdog proceeds to backpedal here, making the argument that the metaphor works, yet doesn't. It does seem that Locdog agrees with Ironf's point for a second, then realizes he's contradicted himself and shifts into reverse.

Ironf> and I'm saying you put up or shut up. Get to it or quit crying.
Locdog07> Wait a minute, now we're back to childish bickering.
Locdog07> I'm trying to be sensible about this.
Ironf> No, "put up or shut up" is a regularly used turn of phrase
Locdog07> If you even knew that I was going to America in 11 days, you'd not have said that.
Locdog07> But you didn't, so I shoulda told you...
Locdog07> Aaaanyway, the fact is, some people can't put up.
Ironf> So they should shut up
Ironf> exactly. You agree with the point once again.
Locdog07> Hey, wait, you just put that in my mouth again
Ironf> No, you seem to have a habit of doing it yourself
Locdog07> We don't want to shuttup
Locdog07> We have freedom of speech
Locdog07> We can say what we want
Locdog07> Wait, no, when did I once put words in anyone's mouth?
Ironf> That's not what the shut up means. It means get on with your life.
Locdog07> You've done it twice so far
Locdog07> Knowing that others are better off than you?
Locdog07> And shut up, as far as I remember, means *shut up*
Locdog07> Put up is more the get-on-with-your-life part.
Ironf> well in this instance your are wrong. As you like to say, it's a metaphor
Locdog07> Maybe your reading comprehension got confused.
Locdog07> No, this isn't a metaphor, it happens in real life.
Locdog07> You can't call that part a metaphor
Locdog07> The food part is a metaphor
Locdog07> Not that.
Locdog07> Illnesses happen.
Locdog07> You can't say they're metaphors and just forget them.
Ironf> No, in the phrase "put up or shut up" it means either do something or get over it
Locdog07> So, "put up" means do something?

Light dawns! Locdog makes yet another near-fatal mistake: Instead of admitting he doesn't know what "put up or shut up" means exactly, he perceives it as a personal attack and makes one of his own (If you even knew that I was going to America in 11 days, you'd not have said that). He drags the reading comprehension line out again, argues that Ironf (and who knows what else) may be suppressing his Freedom Of Speech, and proclaims something about Ironf's "put up or shut up" not being a proper metaphor. And then comes one of the most remarkable lines we at HG Labs have ever heard: "You can't say they're metaphors and just forget them." Forget what? Who said forget something? We suppose it has something to do with his "MST3K is the Manna of Life" argument, but deciphering his side of the argument is beginning to compare to doing a Rubik's Cube blindfolded using one foot. And, just as a side note: just because something happens in real life doesn't mean you can't use the situation as a metaphor. Like comparing something to Third World Food Crises.

Locdog07> I thought put up meant make do with something.
Locdog07> It's a comparison, Ironf.
Ironf> Making do with it is doing something.
Ironf> Well it's a poor comparision because the two things aren't equal.
Ironf> more along the lines would be not getting your favorite thing to eat everyday
Locdog07> But they are. Your little mind just can't see it.
Locdog07> You just can't break a few barriers. Everything has to be text book with you.
Ironf> No, they aren't. I refuse to believe that the "pain" inflicted onto a person for missing a tv show is anywhere equal what an illness does.
Locdog07> Uh, some MSTies would disagree.
Locdog07> You've never experienced the pain of missing it, how can you say that?

Why do we have this mental picture of Locdog as Dr. Smith, sobbing "The Pain! The Pain!"? Good thing Locdog doesn't live in the US, because he could sue the Sci-Fi channel for Pain and Suffering.

Ironf> Those are the ones that need to "get a life" as Shatner put it.
Locdog07> Shatner was forced to say that.
Ironf> I've missed an ep or two before. I got over it.
Locdog07> An ep or two. I'm talking about 170 eps.
Ironf> No one is forced to say anything<Locdog07> You can't call that part a metaphor
Ironf> <Locdog07> The food part is a metaphor
Ironf> <Locdog07> Not that.
Ironf> <Locdog07> Illnesses happen.
Ironf> anything
Locdog07> You're comparison isn't equal, Ironf.
Ironf> durn insert key
Locdog07> Shatner was given the script and he said it, Ironf. He didn't mean it.
Locdog07> Saturday Night Live isn't the Bible.
Ironf> No, if he didn't want to do it, he turns down the job and doesn't cash the paycheck
Locdog07> It was funny, though. It was a joke.
Locdog07> They don't mean everything they say on that show.
Locdog07> Their characters aren't their real selves.
Ironf> Yes and if he didn't mean it, why make a film about said people and how they send thier lives and make it mock them?
Locdog07> Because it's *funny*, and it gives him money
Locdog07> Samuel L. Jackson thought Pulp Fiction was a beautiful screenplay, that doesn't mean he meant everything he said in it.
Ironf> that's right, so if he was so opposed to it, he wouldn't take the money over doing it. Exactly
Locdog07> Yes he would, money is what everyone wants.
Locdog07> He can say it because he knows people won't take it seriously
Locdog07> And if you'd ever seen proper interviews with him, you'd *know* he didn't mean it
Locdog07> And I mean proper interviews
Locdog07> Not staged ones

Locdog gets a Warning Card, here. Several documentaries and interviews (and we don't think they were all staged) with Mr. Shatner have shown that, while the SNL folks *did* write the sketch, it was reportedly Shatner who gave the writers the original idea. Also, give yourself 50 bonus points if you can remember just what Locdog's original point was without scrolling back up to the top of the page.

Ironf> The point of the matter is, get over it. If you don't like missing a show, quit crying and do something about it.
Locdog07> That's a harsh, cold view Ironf. Why do you like torturing people deprived of something that you have an adequate supply of?
Ironf> And money isn't something everyone wants over all other things
Locdog07> I didn't say over all other things
Locdog07> There you go again, putting words in my mouth
Ironf> But you imply it when you say the money was the reason.
Locdog07> You said he wouldn't want the money, and I said he would because everyone wants it.
Locdog07> Are you denying the fact that people want money?
Ironf> He wouldn't take the money if he seriously disagreed with the statement.
Locdog07> But he didn't
Ironf> It's called integrity
Locdog07> He didn't seriously
Locdog07> It was a joke, nothing about it was serious
Locdog07> That's like saying Bill Murray agreed with the use of time travel to go back and screw with the past.
Locdog07> It was a joke.
Locdog07> He didn't care what his message was.
Ironf> No because that is a fanciful story. The other is a statement
Locdog07> Shatner standing up and saying that they should get a life is fanciful. He is a Trekkie himself.
Locdog07> He walks out freely in a Star Fleet uniform.
Locdog07> He loves it, he thinks the vision was beautiful.
Locdog07> And you think because he made one joke sketch that he thoughy the fans were dumb.
Ironf> You have no idea what I'm saying to you. I'm saying if he disagreed with the statement as you put forth, he wouldn't take the money to say it. Are you saying he has no integrity? That's what you put forth when you say he'll say anything for the right price
Locdog07> thought
Locdog07> Won't he? He's William Shatner, remember. He's not exactly a brilliant actor who everyone wants.
Locdog07> He had a singing career for the money. He didn't care how he sang, he wanted money.
Locdog07> And wanting money is no bad thing.
Locdog07> We all want it.
Locdog07> Not above everything, though

Several points of order, here: Ironf makes an effort to get the argument back on track, but Locdog continues with his Shatner lecture. Another point is that while Shatner does love Trek, his message was that the drooling fanboys that sit in dark rooms memorizing reams of trivial details about the show should Get A Life. Locdog also makes another of his 2-headed points: He praises Shatner for his love of the Trek Phenomenon, but then reams him for his singing and acting. Nice.

Ironf> Still the point put forth is to simply get a life. It's a television show. They come and go. Get over it.
Locdog07> That's cold. There's a lot of creativity put into these shows. you can't shrug it off like a cold dust of winter.
Ironf> I'm not shrugging off the show, I'm shrugging off the people who's lives are petty enough that they allow it to be ruled by a television show.
Locdog07> Shrugging off human beings? That's worse.
Locdog07> You're shrugging off lives, no matter how miserable.
Locdog07> A mental patient who literally has no life, you'd just shrug him off?
Ironf> That's right. If they can't get over not seeing a television show, then I have no use for them in this world.
Locdog07> What if your son was one of these "lifeless" people.
Locdog07> Ironf, that's so cold.
Locdog07> If your own son, your own son for God's sake, was like that? You'd shrug him off?
Ironf> A mental patient has something *wrong* with them. Someone that bellyaches on and on and on over a tv show doesn't
Locdog07> Yes, and I was bellyaching when I simply asked for you to think of us? One measly request that you simply can'
Locdog07> can't do?
Locdog07> We can't come to America overnight
Ironf> Hey, I like watching The Young Ones. I didn't get to see it for around 8 years. Did I go on and on about not seeing it? No. I got over it, then got a satellite that allows me to see it. I went where what I wanted was at.
Locdog07> Yes, but The Young Ones wasn't on for eight years. Ever. We, however, have to sit and watch knowing that we could have seen it but just didn't know.
Locdog07> And don't say we could have moved, because we couldn't just move on a HUNCH.
Locdog07> We didn't know it existed, nobody outside America did.
Ironf> If you don't know it existed then you don't know to cry about not seeing it.
Locdog07> But when we find out it existed? We can cry then.
Ironf> No, you make a means to get what you want. It's called bettering yourself.
Locdog07> Hey, *I* did that. Some people, however, just simply can't. Your theory doesn't work on everyone because everyone is different.
Ironf> Yes it does work. They should quit crying and work towards what they want. If they don't, they stagnate.

"If your own son, your own son for God's sake...." Too bad this argument took place too late to qualify for any Oscar or Emmy nominations, huh? Locdog finally backtracks to an earlier, still-unresolved point. Not the original one, but an earlier point nonetheless. Half-point awarded for the attempt, no matter what the motive. However, a full point to Ironf for turning Locdog's point back on him with his "Young Ones" line. We also, at this point, see the flowering of the idea that Locdog planted several hundred lines ago: that any perceived weakness or oddness is due to Locdog possibly being Mentally Ill.

Locdog07> Okay, seperate metaphor. Don't complain till I'm done.
Ironf> Just skip the metaphors and work in real life.
Locdog07> I can't do that. I'm not as bland as you.
Locdog07> I don't see a blade of grass when I look at a blade of grass.
Ironf> No, if you can't work in real life terms, then there's no real life reasoning behind it.
Locdog07> Real life terms? Meaning?
Locdog07> Are real life terms when you shrug an imagination off as some sort of disease?
Ironf> meaning skip the missing a television show equals a illness
Locdog07> Are real life terms when you shrug an obsession off for some kind of bad rash?
Locdog07> But it's an illness of the mind. You're just too blind hearted to see that.
Ironf> Are you now saying that you are mentally ill?
Locdog07> If mentally ill is loving a television show that a group of people work pain-stakingly to make, then yes.
Locdog07> You see words as having one meaning. There's so much more to life than that.
Ironf> No, mental illness is making that show the center of your life.
Locdog07>g07> Wow, you just called about 20 percent of the world's population mentally ill.
Ironf> No one should place a televisio<Locdog07> If mentally ill is loving a television show that a group of people work pain-stakingly to make, then yes.
Ironf> <Locdog07> You see words as having one meaning. There's so much more to life than that.
Ironf> <Ironf> No, mental illness is making that show the center of your life.
Ironf> I must get that key removed
Locdog07> Because you're telling people what I say.
Locdog07> You're being childish.
Locdog07> This argument is between you and me. Not your friends.
Ironf> Yes if they have nothing better to do than make the show the center of thier life, then they are ill
Ironf> I can tell whomever I like what conversations I have
Locdog07> Just so then can giggle like schoolkids about it.
Locdog07> They see your name and think "He's my boss, he must be right" and see that fact that your arguing with me and think "Locdog07 is bad". You're all a bunch of robots.
Ironf> See It's been you that's been tossing the insults far more than I have, yet you're the one that wanted to 'discuss this like an adult'
Locdog07> Oh, and what insult did I give?
Ironf> well you kept saying that I must not comprehend much, meaning I'm slow, people giggle like school girls. Yes, not major slams, but still an insult
Locdog07> And your insulting the other MSTies is not as bad as what I said?
Ironf> and I'm the boss of only myself, no one else
Locdog07> You aren't the boss of anyone.

"I don't see a blade of grass when I look at a blade of grass" Ah. Thanks for the update.
Ok, big time out here. You might want to go pour yourself a cold one. We'll wait.

Point #1: Locdog finally begins to admit that he's really, really obsessed over MST3K. Point #2: The childish name-calling on Locdog's part continues. Almost sounds to us like that old Sit-Com chestnut "I don't call people names, you frigging idiot!". Point #3: We begin the subject that will be one of the main Points of Order for the rest of the discussion: That people without MST3K are somehow a mentally-disadvantaged Minority, and those of us with MST3K should be ashamed of ourselves for chuckling over the show while he and his fellow British MSTies fall deeper into MSTiecus Deprivicus. We'd like to note that we object to Locdog's trivialization of the Truly Mentally Ill, comparing their suffering to his pouting over not having his favorite TV show. (Does this mean people in Third World countries who cry about the lack of food and medicine are, in fact, just Mentally Ill?) Point #4: We here at the HG do not Giggle. We Titter. Point #5: One has to wonder who should be paranoid about who, here. At the time this took place, Ironf and his 2 compatriots were in an Invisible channel, discussing Maintenance on both the MST-Homegame channel and on the HG Industries Website. Thus, in order to find Ironf, who was *not* on the main Homegame channel, Locdog had to do a /whois on him to track him down. Yet, Locdog goes on as though this were some sort of planned-out Total HG Assault on him. (You almost start to wonder if Locdog has ever sent any letters to Jodie Foster). And finally, Point #6: There are NO, repeat, NO "bosses", "leader" "tyrants" or whatever at HG Industries. And Locdog, who starts to reach the point where he can't remember what he typed 5 lines ago, seems to agree. Notice how he accuses Ironf of being a Svengali, hypnotizing the world against Locdog, but then several lines later says Ironf isn't "the boss of anyone". Uh, sure. OK.

Ironf> I'm not insulting all msties, I'm just saying I have no use for ones that make a show the center of thier lives
Locdog07> You're deluded into thinking you might be the boss of something.
Locdog07> I didn't say all MSTies!!!
Locdog07> You keep putting words into my mouth!
Locdog07> And you're not supposed to have a use for anybody!
Ironf> I'm not insulting any at all. i'm simplying saying I have no use. You're the one that said they had a mental illness
Locdog07> You're not there to use people!
Locdog07> I didn't say they had a mental illness, I used your terms.
Locdog07> I said if loving a show made me mentally ill, as you said it did, then I was.
Locdog07> But loving a show only shows how capable of love people are. you seem to be too cold for any of that,
Ironf> No you're the one that equated it to a mental illness
Locdog07> I was talking about people with no lives, i.e. mentally ill people. I was comparing, not suggesting it was equal.
Locdog07> I'll just wait for you to cut and paste this to your friends, no hurry.
Ironf> No, i'm looking for the exact line where you equated it, not I
Locdog07> Keep looking. you'll never find it.
Locdog07> And if you do think you do, I'll prove you wrong.
Locdog07> At least I have the guts to stand up for myself. you need your friends to help.
Locdog07> If you're the boss of you and don't need anybody else, why tell them?
Locdog07> Perhaps you're not the boss of you after all.
Locdog07> Perhaps you're each the boss of each other.
Ironf> <Locdog07> But it's an illness of the mind. You're just too blind hearted to see that.
Ironf> You state that it's an illness of the mind when you cry because you miss your tv show.
Locdog07> No, I state that it's a sick feeling in the mind. That doesn't mean it's mentally ill.
Locdog07> Besides, do you even know what counts as a mental illness?
Locdog07> A mental illness is when something you think causes you to be upset.
Ironf> No you state that it's an illness of the mind, which is mental illness.
Locdog07> And you can define mental illness?
Locdog07> Have you even attended medical school?
Ironf> No, but I can and have read a dictionary before.
Locdog07> Go on then.
Locdog07> Tell me what the dictionary says.
Locdog07> If there's a two word entry that has "Mentally ill" which I doubt.

First off, half-point again to Locdog: most common dictionaries probably do not define expressions. His paranoid rants continue, along with what seems to be an inability to understand common expressions (You're not here to use people!!). And just what does the line "perhaps you're each the boss of each other" mean? A bit of latent Homophobic Projection, perhaps? Never Acceptable Behavior. It takes several lines once again for Ironf to drag Locdog kicking and screaming back to the current subject, which is differentiating the Mentally Ill from Obsessed Fans. It does take a while, as Locdog has found a new obsession: The idea that people are sitting around laughing at him. And, take a look at the line where Ironf quotes Locdog's "Illness of the mind" line, and Locdog once again backpedals from logic with a "That's not what I meant!" defense.

Locdog07> Mentally ill doesn't mean you're lying on the floor drooling. It can mean that, yes, but doesn't have to be that bad.
Locdog07> The smallest mental illness you can have is to be upset about something.
Ironf> you know good and well that a mental illness is when there is something wrong with a persons mind that causes them to not be able to function properly in society
Locdog07> That's not what doctors think. And they should know.
Locdog07> I talk with doctors on a regular basis because I'm undergoing a small case of depression. No, not mentally whacked out on the floor giggling, i'm just upset. And I'm classified as mentally ill. doesn't that tell you something?
Ironf> yes, they do state that. That's why the truly mentally ill are usually put into a home so that they can be cared for with the proper treatmetn
Locdog07> Truly mentally ill. Partial mental illness is different.
Locdog07> Shedding a tear is classified as mentally ill, you know?
Locdog07> Don't laugh, it's true.
Ironf> Not neccessarily.
Locdog07> Yes, neccessarily
Locdog07> It's just your mind can't cope with things other than what you and your friends laugh about
Locdog07> You think mentally ill means people in straight-jackets.
Locdog07> It's not.
Ironf> So if a piece of dust gets in your eye and a tear forms, you're mentally ill. Thanks, but I'll have to skip your word on that one.
Locdog07> Oh, now you're being silly.
Locdog07> I meant shedding a tear out of sadness.
Locdog07> You're so literal, that's your problem.
Ironf> No, I'm disproving what you said.
Ironf> Literal is what the world is about.
Locdog07> No it's not.
Locdog07> If that's what it was about, we'd all be drones.
Locdog07> There'd be no such thing as artists.
Ironf> Welcome to the hive
Locdog07> You're so cold.
Ironf> Yes I am, so?
Locdog07> So don't you care?
Locdog07> Don't you care that your cold attitude will isolate you?

Again, Locdog repeats another Rule Violation: Making a play for sympathy by claiming to have Some Sort Of Problem, in this case having Clinical Depression. He pauses to take yet another shot at the Homegame (Rule 10: You do not have ESP, and you do not know what people are thinking/doing/saying in a place you cannot get input from.), then makes yet another point that will Live In Infamy: That shedding a tear makes one "mentally ill". Well, I'm sure everyone who has ever gotten the sniffles at the end of "Old Yeller" or cried at the funeral of a loved one will be happy to know that they can begin collecting Disability Payments now. And how cold and unfeeling of Locdog to imply Depressed people sit on the floor, whacked out and giggling. Final quick point, here; notice Locdog has presented no solution of any sort to his Lack-Of-MST3K problem.

Ironf> Now you're hypocritical for trying to change me when you didn't like that I was making suggestions to you.
Locdog07> I'm not trying to change you.
Locdog07> I know I can't do that.
Locdog07> You've made your choice.
Ironf> I have plenty of friends because I get out into the world instead of crying over a television show
Locdog07> And even though you may have "friends" to giggle with, the only thing that unites you all is that fact that you're isolated
Locdog07> Where is this "Crying" thing coming from? Have you ever heard me "cry"?
Ironf> It's not isolation if there are more and more people joining everyday
Locdog07> Yes it is. The only reason they join is because you've all been isolated.
Locdog07> It's one big isolation club.
Locdog07> And you're all one big isolated group.
Locdog07> You all count as one, because you all think as one.
Ironf> Then it's not isolation if there are more people. If it were a set number set off from society, then it's isolated.
Locdog07> You don't listen.
Locdog07> You're one group body isolated.
Ironf> You don't think.
Locdog07> I think more than you do.
Locdog07> You see a landscape and see nothing but hills and trees.
Locdog07> I can think about that.
Ironf> But yo reach incorrect solutions, so the thinking if for naught
Ironf> you
Locdog07> I do not reach any incorrect solutions, they're incorrect in your mind because they're not what you want.
Locdog07> You cold man.,
Ironf> If a person knows what they want and tries to achive it, more power to them
Locdog07> You're changing the subject.

And, another 50 bonus points to the person who can explain how a group that gets more new members everyday, a group with diversified interests, points of view, political and social beliefs, and educational levels can be called "One Group Body Isolated". Perhaps he's confusing the HomeGame with an experience he had elsewhere. Locdog also has once again come down with Convenient Memory Loss: he claims not to know who brought up the "crying" point. This introduces Rule 11: Be a Man. If you've made a mistake/bad point/bad argument, admit it and move on. Locdog also continues his point that Ironf is some unfeeling robot because he doesn't agree with Locdog's view of the World. And, please take note of the line where Locdog claims to never reach any incorrect solutions. Could someone hook us up with his phone number so we can get the recipe for Cold Fusion, the Cure for all Diseases, and Tomorrow's Lottery Numbers?

Locdog07> Besides, if what a person wants is bad for everyone else, no power should go to them.
Locdog07> Hitler was like that.
Locdog07> Hitler had "friends"
Ironf> He was also a genius
Locdog07> In some ways, yes.
Locdog07> Mostly, no.
Locdog07> How was it genius to kill his dog because the dog might be conspiring against him?
Ironf> No that's mental illness.
Locdog07> How was the holocaust genius?
Locdog07> How was wanting world domination genius?
Ironf> He had a goal and tried to achive it.
Locdog07> A goal that would be wrong in the long term.
Ironf> See you cried that I was changing the subject, but you've done nothing but change the subject.
Locdog07> Cried? How was that crying?
Ironf> You cried foul.
Locdog07> "You're changing the subject" somehow turns to "boo-hoo-hoo!"?
Ironf> exactly
Locdog07> Ironf, you're clearly delusional. I can't get through to you.
Locdog07> I only hope one day you realize how you've wasted your life like this
Ironf> See that's when you know you've lost an argument when all you can do is call the other person names.
Locdog07> Names?
Locdog07> You called thousands of people mentally ill
Ironf> You called me delusional
Ironf> And they are by your definition
Locdog07> They are by *you* definition
Locdog07> I said if crying about a show was mentally ill then I was mentally ill
Ironf> Let's remember correctly, you said it was a illness of the mind, which is mental illness
Locdog07> Geez, Ironf, you still think mental illness is people lying in bandages crying to mother?
Locdog07> You're calling mentally ill people names now
Ironf> I'm not arguing that you aren't mentally ill.
Locdog07> So you're arguing that I'm mentally ill?
Locdog07> You used a double negative
Ironf> Can you read and see I specifically say "I'm not arguing"
Locdog07> You used a double negative!
Locdog07> "I'm *not* arguing that you are*n't* mentally ill"
Locdog07> See?

Hope you got a 6-pack when you went for that cold one, because we're taking another Big Time Out here. First Point: The argument should have defaulted to Ironf at this point, because Locdog violates Godwin's Law. Godwin's Law reads as follows: An argument, whether on IRC, a Newsgroup, or what have you, is automatically over when one participant of an argument calls or compares the other participant(s) to Hitler or a Nazi. For the record, there are plenty of historians that agree that Hitler was, at some times in his life, a Genius. An Evil, Sick, Twisted Genius, but a Genius. Second Point: Locdog dances around the "mentally ill" point again, making the ridiculous claim that Ironf brought the whole subject up. Just for the record, scroll back and see who makes the comparison between Deprived MST3K Fans and the Mentally Ill. Another violation of the rule we mention just one Discussion Box up. We here at HG Labs lost our professionalism and fell into hysterics at one line here: When Locdog says Ironf will one day "Look back and realize how he wasted his life". Locdog is claiming to be Mentally Deficient because of a Puppet Show, and is spending almost 3 hours crying to a stranger about it, and *Ironf* has wasted his life? Finally, Locdog's last few lines bring us to Rule 12: Typo-pouncing and language lessons during a discussion are considered Bad Form and Desperation.

Ironf> <Locdog07> I said if crying about a show was mentally ill then I was mentally ill  I'm not arguing that you aren't. In other words, I agree that you are.
Locdog07> I didn't say I believed crying about a show was mentally ill
Locdog07> I just said if that's what *you* thought was mentally ill
Locdog07> Because that's what you seem to think
Ironf> And for the record, I never stated that mentally ill people just lay around in bandages crying to mother? You were the one that equated the two
Locdog07> You do think that, though
Locdog07> Are you telling me you don't think that?
Ironf> No, I don't. Mental illness takes many different forms.
Locdog07> Oh, now you're taking words from my mouth.
Ironf> No, I never once said mentally ill people just lay around.
Ironf> You may have assumed that I did, but you'll find that you are wrong.
Locdog07> Huh.
Locdog07> Would I?
Locdog07> Maybe you don't now.
Locdog07> But you probably did before with your stone mind.
Ironf> I knew you were wrong about many a thing around half an hour ago.
Locdog07> Like what?
Ironf> Like the valid argument of people crying when they should better themselves by getting to where what they want is.
Ironf> You were wrong on the whole tear issue.
Locdog07> You don't really believe that.
Ironf> Yes, I do.
Locdog07> Ironf, you can say that I was wrong as much as you like, but it's not the case.
Locdog07> You've never entered a medical school, have you?
Ironf> No, have you?
Locdog07> I told you before, yes!
Locdog07> I've been told about these things
Locdog07> Mental illness isn't just the people in the wards
Ironf> No, you've mentioned that you are currently being treated, but that's a different kind of entering.
Locdog07> I'm still present at all the teachings
Locdog07> I hear everything
Locdog07> I read books
Locdog07> I know what I'm talking about
Locdog07> You don't have any back up to what you say, however
Ironf> If you did, you wouldn't be wrong so often
Locdog07> I'm not wrong, you only think I am

Oy. Let's take these points in some sort of Order.
1) Locdog makes the point that Ironf thinks "crying about a TV show makes one mentally ill", then, when asked for proof of this statement, says he "knows" this is what Ironf thinks. Again, Locdog makes claims of ESP. Violation of Rule 9.
2) Locdog makes another claim that he attends Medical School. However, if one reads between the lines, it almost sounds like he's not a student, but that he's a Subject. Perhaps on a class about Obsessive Disorders.
3) Locdog once again lays claim to Perfection, hinting that he's Never Wrong. We'd like him to explain his occasional typos, then. Some sort of Performance Art?
4) Uh, excuse me, Mr. Erhardt, sir? I don't think we'll be getting back to the subject of you today. Thanks so much for coming. What? Oh, yes, we validate parking.
5) "I hear everything. I read books." Not to put words in Locdog's mouth, but that almost sounds like what the Black Helicopter Crowd says when you ask about Secret Gov't Brain Transmissions.
6) Ironf does makes the point that some Mentally Ill people require Treatment in Hospitals, for their own protection. A free Frozen Coke to the one who can quote the line where Ironf says that all Mentally Ill folks should be tossed into wards.

Ironf> What factual evidence have you put forth?
Locdog07> The fact that medical science says that mental illness isn't just for people in wards.
Locdog07> And what factual evidence have you put forth?
Ironf> I never said it was.
Locdog07> Yes you did.
Locdog07> <Ironf> you know good and well that a mental illness is when there is something wrong with a persons mind that causes them to not be able to function properly in society
Locdog07> Which sends them to wards.
Ironf> I don't have to put forth evidence to disprove something. It's your obligation to prove it. Or have you never had a science class.
Locdog07> I've had a science class. It depends on where you had a science class.
Ironf> No, if that were true, then there wouldn't be crazy bag ladies on the street.
Locdog07> Crazy bag ladies. Fantasy of yours?
Ironf> You've obviously never been to a large city then.
Locdog07> Maybe that's because it isn't where the food is.
Ironf> See, you're trying to get out of the situation by not keeping with the topic
Locdog07> The topic was always about that.
Locdog07> You're just too blind to see.
Ironf> Yes, that's why you felt the need to bring up Hilter. I see said the blind man to the deaf one.
Locdog07> Hilter. Of course. Hilter.
Ironf> I didn't bring him up, you did.
Locdog07> I didn't say you didn't.
Locdog07> Or did.
Ironf> So you agree that you've changed the topic more than a few times.
Locdog07> I brought him up to show you how much you are like the Nazi party.
Locdog07> I used him to aid my argument.
Locdog07> I didn't change the subject.
Locdog07> We've never truly changed the subject.

Uh, what? Never changed the subject? Are you trying to tell us, Mr. Locdog, that this whole conversation started out as a discussion of Nazi Attitudes toward the Mentally Ill? What about Mr. Erhardt? What about the lack of MST3K in Britain? What about the HomeGame as On-Line Militia? Even Alt.Cascade would have called a conversation containing this many Plot Changes to a screeching halt about 3000 lines ago. Finally, what's with the "Bag Ladies. Fantasy of yours?" line? Is Locdog taking a poll to test interest in a Alt.Binaries.Pictures.Erotica.Bag-Ladies newsgroup? Put us down for a "No, thanks" vote.

Ironf> I'm a nazi now because I believe that a person should stop crying and try to do something about it. Well Heil Hitler!
Locdog07> No, you're whole group are Neo Nazis.
Locdog07> your
Ironf> Next thing I know, you'll be dodging around to space travel
Locdog07> Metaphorically speaking.
Locdog07> Ironf, you're being childish now. I'm trying to debate a subject and you're ducking and dodging with childishenss.
Locdog07> ness
Locdog07> "I....know...some phrases"
Locdog07> That's what I hear.
Locdog07> You know, Ironf, I hope you wake up one day 30 years from now realizing how you've wasted your life.
Locdog07> Trying to control people who you should simply co-operate with.
Ironf> No because I will have gotten over not seeing a television show and moved on instead of crying about it
Ironf> I control no one but myself.
Locdog07> You don't control anyone really. not even yourself.
Locdog07> You're too stupid to realize.
Locdog07> I don't care if you think this is childish. You started the childishness.
Ironf> Yes I certainly did. Of course you didn't because you are superiour.
Locdog07> Yes, you did.
Ironf> That's why you're the one that keeps insulting people while they try to have a civil discussion
Locdog07> When I told you what Erhardt said

And the conversation laps itself! Everyone wave hello to Mr. Erhardt as we drive by! Once more into the breech, dear friends, as we take this point by point....
1) Yes, a mention of Neo-Nazis does count as an invocation of Godwin's Law. Answering a charge of nazism, however, does not. You might wish to write that down, somewhere.
2) Anyone else see the irony in Locdog's line "You started the childishness"?
2) I'm sorry, we don't know if we can accept Locdog not knowing what "Pot......Kettle......Black" means. We're thinking that it seems to once again prove the theory: You can tell when Locdog concedes a point, because that's when the name-calling starts.
4) "Control people you should be co-operating with." And, 3 lines later, we get "You don't control anyone, really.". If anyone out there ever gets into a lengthy discussion with Locdog on anything, you might want to stock up on Dramamine, or the constant topic-and-point-switching might make you feel Urpy.
5) For someone who doesn't care what Ironf thinks or says, Locdog is spending an awful lot of time on the subject, isn't he?

Ironf> I said why should I care what he says
Locdog07> A civil discussion when you tell your little friends everything I say so you can giggle? There's no such thing
Locdog07> And you didn't just say that
Ironf> the civil discussion is between you and I.
Locdog07> You say "Oh suuuuuuure he did"
Locdog07> Which is child talk
Ironf> That right, implying that I didn't believe you.
Locdog07> In a childish manner
Ironf> If you feel it is, well then go with it.
Ironf> I still bring for the words "get over it" and "get a life"
Locdog07> Your sentences make no sense.
Locdog07> What does "I still bring for the words" mean?
Locdog07> Try fixing your writing comprehension.,
Ironf> forth, excuse me, typo.
Ironf> Another way to know you're losing an argument is when you only have grammar and such to attack.
Locdog07> Another way is when you start pointing these things out.
Locdog07> Another way is when you simply can't accept anything the other person says.

Ok, we have to honestly ask: does Locdog actually remember anything he types? Note these 2 lines...
1) What does "I still bring the words" mean?
2) Another way is when you start pointing these things out.
So, what Locdog does here is this: He makes fun of a typo Ironf makes, and then admits, ADMITS, that this is a sign that you've blown the argument. Full point to Locdog for being Man enough to admit he's beaten. (We've pointed this out before, we know, but realize that it needs a bit of explanation. This little bit of idiocity is called "typo-pouncing" and would get you laughed out of the better Flaming News Groups)

Ironf> Not really, no. I didn't start the argument, so I feel no need to win it.
Locdog07> Fine.
Ironf> It's good too find that you see my point finally.
Locdog07> Sit in your chat room turning innocent people to cruel, heartless bastards. See if I care.
Locdog07> I don't see your point. you have no point.
Ironf> I don't turn anyone into anything. I have no control over others. You seem to think I'm some grand puppetmaster. Why is that?
Locdog07> You seem to think I cry about MST. Why is that?
Ironf> Because you like to bring up the fact that you can't watch it constantly and based an entire argument around that.
Locdog07> Constantly?
Locdog07> I said it *once*.
Ironf> Now you answer my question
Locdog07> k
Ironf> Once at the chat then again for this entire argument
Locdog07> You turned my-crow-soft from a nice MSTie who loved the show and was trying his best to save it, into a guy who insulted as many people as he could, even those who wanted to help.
Ironf> I did no such thing
Locdog07> Yes you did.
Ironf> I don't control what people do.
Locdog07> You try to, though.
Ironf> No I don't.
Ironf> I don't have that power so there's no use in wasting the time trying
Locdog07> Of course, stating that you don't automatically proves it! I believe you!!
Locdog07> Ironf, let's just end this now. It's going nowhere.
Locdog07> I don't care if you think i'm running away.
Ironf> Well it's good to see you admit defeat.
Locdog07> I just can't be bothered arguing with someone who clearly hates me no matter what.
Locdog07> I'm not defeated.
Locdog07> In fact, if anyone outside of HomeGame had seen this, they'd have agreed with me.
Ironf> I don't hate you at all. I have indifference towards toy.
Ironf> you
Locdog07> Well, okay.
Locdog07> Fine, say I was defeated. What would it prove?
Locdog07> That I'm the bad guy here?
Ironf> It proves you didn't know what you were talking about.
Locdog07> That I'm stupid?
Ironf> If you say so.
Locdog07> Whatever
Ironf> exactly
Session Close: Sun Aug 08 08:21:01 1999

Bear with us here, folks. Let's clean up a few points before the summarization....
1) My-crow-soft still enjoys MST3K, and still makes efforts to save it. If he's been insulting folks, we'd have to assume he has a good reason for it. When asked about these accusations, My-Crow replied "I came here because I wanted to be somewhere where people didn't fight with each other all the time".
2) No one, and we mean No One, in the HomeGame hates anyone. Hate is a waste of time, energy and emotions. Locdog is welcome to submit any proof he has that Ironf and the HG hate him (or anyone), and we'll be happy to publish it here in future editions of "How *Not* To Win an Argument".
3)Again, Locdog makes the point that Ironf wastes his life. And once again, we say: What do you call what you've done for the past 3 hours?
4) "
Of course, stating that you don't automatically proves it! I believe you!!". Please, folks, do NOT use sarcasm unless you're fully trained and licensed in it's use, or innocent people may get hurt. Thank you.
5) So, does anyone outside the HomeGame agree with the point(s) Locdog was trying to make? Does anyone understand any of the points Locdog was trying to make?

Ok, so what have we learned from our dissection of the above conversation?

We've learned the First 12 Rules of having a Good, Intelligent Argument. We've learned what Mental Illness is *not*. We've learned that some people toss the "Nazi" word around with absolutely no concept of what it really stands for. And, we guess, we've learned that different countries have different TV Programs and Schedules.

What we here at HG Labs hope you take away from this, and other parts of the Life Improvement Series, is this: Life is a Precious Gift. However, Life is a Heartless Bitch, and will drill you in the shorts every chance it gets. Learn to deal with it like an Adult. Thank you.

And the final score, adjusted for Penalties, Yellow flags and such...





Ironf has thus qualified for the semifinals.


Another fine service provided by HG-Ultra. We now return to our regularly scheduled Mind Experiments.